• xbin

    From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to digitalman on Mon Mar 7 12:33:51 2022
    hey how do i display xbin images with synchronet.
    do i use xbimage.js ?

    i was thinking of playing around with it.

    thanks,
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Mon Mar 7 11:01:19 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to digitalman on Mon Mar 07 2022 12:33 pm

    hey how do i display xbin images with synchronet.
    do i use xbimage.js ?

    Yeah, it's documented here: https://wiki.synchro.net/module:xbimage

    Let me know if you have questions.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Sling Blade quote #12:
    Karl (re hammer): I don't rightly know. I just kinda woke up holding it.
    Norco, CA WX: 61.4°F, 24.0% humidity, 7 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Mon Mar 7 13:57:36 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Mon Mar 07 2022 11:01 am

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to digitalman on Mon Mar 07 2022 12:33 pm

    hey how do i display xbin images with synchronet.
    do i use xbimage.js ?

    Yeah, it's documented here: https://wiki.synchro.net/module:xbimage

    Let me know if you have questions.
    --
    digital man (rob)


    well i did a trump bitmap and it didnt turn out so well. https://i.imgur.com/tOgvBVM.png

    now i made sure i decreased the color.

    do i need to specify the dimensions? i'm just doing the show command and i renamed it to trump.xb
    now it turned out purple barf instead of green barf.

    here's my files that i'm working with and the output files https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybuv8nuh
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Mon Mar 7 13:20:38 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Mar 07 2022 01:57 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Mon Mar 07 2022 11:01 am

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to digitalman on Mon Mar 07 2022 12:33 pm

    hey how do i display xbin images with synchronet.
    do i use xbimage.js ?

    Yeah, it's documented here: https://wiki.synchro.net/module:xbimage

    Let me know if you have questions.
    --
    digital man (rob)


    well i did a trump bitmap and it didnt turn out so well. https://i.imgur.com/tOgvBVM.png

    now i made sure i decreased the color.

    Decreased... to one? Only monochrome bitmaps are supported.

    do i need to specify the dimensions?

    No, the dimensions are parsed from the bmp file.

    i'm just doing the show command and i
    renamed it to trump.xb
    now it turned out purple barf instead of green barf.

    Renamed what?

    When you use the "xbimage create" it automatically names the file with .xb file exension.

    Perhaps closely watch the status/errors reported when using "xbimage create". --
    digital man (rob)

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #117:
    Synchronet v1b r0 (for MS-DOS) was released on September 25, 1992
    Norco, CA WX: 65.2°F, 17.0% humidity, 9 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Mon Mar 7 21:28:46 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Mon Mar 07 2022 01:20 pm

    well i did a trump bitmap and it didnt turn out so well. https://i.imgur.com/tOgvBVM.png

    now i made sure i decreased the color.

    Decreased... to one? Only monochrome bitmaps are supported.



    okay that's probably it. i did two colors. i dont think my editor did monocrome.

    i'm just doing the show command and i
    renamed it to trump.xb
    now it turned out purple barf instead of green barf.

    Renamed what?

    it creates multiple output files so i renamed one to make it simple.

    Perhaps closely watch the status/errors reported when using "xbimage create". --
    digital man (rob)

    it didnt do any errors

    c:\temp\trump.14.xb (80x35) created successfully
    Converting c:\temp\trump.bmp (640x480) to 8 char-height XBin: c:\temp\trump.8.xb
    glyphs 4800
    de-duplicating
    done
    Unique glyphs: 607
    Total glyphs: 4800
    Total glyphs: 4800
    Creating c:\temp\trump.8.xb
    c:\temp\trump.8.xb (80x60) created successfully
    C:\sbbs\exec\xbimage.js executed in 22.73 seconds

    JavaScript: Destroying context
    JavaScript: Destroying runtime

    ---- end ------

    okay i used windows paint and saved as monocrome.

    it didnt turn out great. probably because of the white bg https://i.imgur.com/oBJJopW.png

    i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like jpgs but they were in a separate window. it would be nice if syncterm could display a png in the client the way it can display these xb files.

    i think that would be a big game changer for the client.
    not sure if that's possible though without a big rewrite.

    looks like this format requires a lot of image tweaking and has a lot of limitations. that's probably why it wasnt widely used.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Mon Mar 7 20:37:06 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Mar 07 2022 09:28 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Mon Mar 07 2022 01:20 pm

    well i did a trump bitmap and it didnt turn out so well. https://i.imgur.com/tOgvBVM.png

    now i made sure i decreased the color.

    Decreased... to one? Only monochrome bitmaps are supported.



    okay that's probably it. i did two colors. i dont think my editor did monocrome.

    i'm just doing the show command and i
    renamed it to trump.xb
    now it turned out purple barf instead of green barf.

    Renamed what?

    it creates multiple output files so i renamed one to make it simple.

    Perhaps closely watch the status/errors reported when using "xbimage create". --

    it didnt do any errors

    Okay, it will now (if you try to convert a > 1-bit BMP to XBin).

    ---- end ------

    okay i used windows paint and saved as monocrome.

    it didnt turn out great. probably because of the white bg https://i.imgur.com/oBJJopW.png

    I think you need to start with a better image.

    i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like jpgs but they were in a separate window. it would be nice if syncterm could display a png in the client the way it can display these xb files.

    It's call Sixel, it displays in the same window.

    i think that would be a big game changer for the client.

    It's been there for several years now. Check dura-bbs.net:6359 if you want to see some cool stuff being done with both SyncTERM fonts and Sixel from an Apple ][.

    not sure if that's possible though without a big rewrite.

    It's already there.

    looks like this format requires a lot of image tweaking and has a lot of limitations. that's probably why it wasnt widely used.

    XBin images are compatible with SyncTERM 1.0. That's it's main feature. <shrug> --
    digital man (rob)

    Rush quote #53:
    He picks up scraps of conversation, radio and radiation .. Digital Man
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    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to MRO on Tue Mar 8 05:04:16 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Mar 07 2022 21:28:46

    okay i used windows paint and saved as monocrome.

    i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like jpgs but they were in a separate window. it would be nice if syncterm could display a png in the client the way it can display these xb files.

    looks like this format requires a lot of image tweaking and has a lot of limitations. that's probably why it wasnt widely used.

    He added support for sixel around the same time. I don't remember the limitations of the format, but you get colours and decent looking images. Should be possible to find conversion utilities online.

    I think there's a demo of it on my BBS immediately upon connection if you're using a high enough SyncTERM version. (An image will show up before the login menu appears.)

    The display function I'm using is like this, where 'fn' is a string, path to a sixel file:

    load('cterm_lib.js');

    function show_sixel(fn) {
    if (console.cterm_version >= 1189) {
    var image = new File(fn);
    if (image.exists) {
    if (image.open("rb", true)) {
    var readlen = console.output_buffer_level + console.output_buffer_space;
    readlen /= 2;
    console.clear();
    while (!image.eof) {
    var imagedata=image.read(readlen);
    while (console.output_buffer_space < imagedata.length) {
    mswait(1);
    }
    console.write(imagedata);
    }
    image.close();
    return true;
    }
    }
    }
    return false;
    }

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Tue Mar 8 03:53:04 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Mon Mar 07 2022 08:37 pm

    it didnt turn out great. probably because of the white bg https://i.imgur.com/oBJJopW.png

    I think you need to start with a better image.



    better how? i used a screenshot of an ansi file. should i make it so the
    bg isnt white?

    It's call Sixel, it displays in the same window.

    i think that would be a big game changer for the client.

    It's been there for several years now. Check dura-bbs.net:6359 if you want to see some cool stuff being done with both SyncTERM fonts and Sixel from an Apple ][.


    yeah that looks cool. when deuce first showed me syncterm working with images it had a separate window popup. does sixel take png files?

    that's what i was talking about, not xbin files

    looks like this format requires a lot of image tweaking and has a lot of limitations. that's probably why it wasnt widely used.

    XBin images are compatible with SyncTERM 1.0. That's it's main feature. <shrug> --

    so why didn't my image convert correctly? i had it saved as monochrome and changed the resolution so it was divisable by 8.

    what do i have to do to an image to get it to display correctly.

    also you said :
    i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like jpgs but they were in a separate window. it would be nice if syncterm could display a png in the client the way it can display these xb files.

    It's call Sixel, it displays in the same window.

    so can syncterm display jpgs and other images? png would be better because of the colors.

    thanks,
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to echicken on Tue Mar 8 03:56:40 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 05:04 am

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Mar 07 2022 21:28:46

    okay i used windows paint and saved as monocrome.

    i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like

    jpgs
    but they were in a separate window. it would be nice if syncterm could display a png in the client the way it can display these xb files.

    looks like this format requires a lot of image tweaking and has a

    lot
    of limitations. that's probably why it wasnt widely used.

    He added support for sixel around the same time. I don't remember the limitations of the format, but you get colours and decent looking images. Should be possible to find conversion utilities online.

    I think there's a demo of it on my BBS immediately upon connection if

    you're
    using a high enough SyncTERM version. (An image will show up before the login menu appears.)

    The display function I'm using is like this, where 'fn' is a string, path

    to
    a sixel file:

    load('cterm_lib.js');

    function show_sixel(fn) {
    if (console.cterm_version >= 1189) {
    var image = new File(fn);
    if (image.exists) {
    if (image.open("rb", true)) {
    var readlen = console.output_buffer_level + console.output_buffer_space;
    readlen /= 2;


    okay, thanks. that makes sense.
    i'll look for a conversion utility.

    would be great if we could use .png files in our bbses but it's probably not possible. that's too bad.

    i liked what i saw on dura-bbs.net but the format seems limited.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to MRO on Tue Mar 8 14:35:53 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 03:56:40

    would be great if we could use .png files in our bbses but it's probably not possible. that's too bad.

    Conversion on demand is probably the way to go, and doable with existing command line utilities (eg. img2sixel). I'd have it produce copies for each terminal size it encounters and reuse those files later. An at-code could invoke the converter/loader and then display the image, and the sysop wouldn't have to think beyond dropping the PNG somewhere on disk.

    There's no technical reason SyncTERM couldn't show a PNG directly, but I doubt if that'll ever happen (for a variety of reasons).

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to MRO on Tue Mar 8 11:26:23 2022
    El 8/3/22 a las 06:56, MRO escribió:
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 05:04 am

    > Re: xbin
    > By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Mar 07 2022 21:28:46
    >
    > MR> okay i used windows paint and saved as monocrome.
    >
    > MR> i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like
    >
    > function show_sixel(fn) {
    > if (console.cterm_version >= 1189) {
    > var image = new File(fn);
    > if (image.exists) {
    > if (image.open("rb", true)) {
    > var readlen = console.output_buffer_level + console.output_buffer_space;
    > readlen /= 2;


    okay, thanks. that makes sense.
    i'll look for a conversion utility.

    On debian you can install libsixel-bin and get the sixel2png tool

    Saludos!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to echicken on Tue Mar 8 12:19:30 2022
    El 8/3/22 a las 07:04, echicken escribió:
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Mar 07 2022 21:28:46

    MR> okay i used windows paint and saved as monocrome.

    MR> i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like jpgs but
    MR> they were in a separate window. it would be nice if syncterm could display
    MR> a png in the client the way it can display these xb files.

    MR> looks like this format requires a lot of image tweaking and has a lot of
    MR> limitations. that's probably why it wasnt widely used.

    He added support for sixel around the same time. I don't remember the limitations of the format, but you get colours and decent looking images. Should be possible to find conversion utilities online.

    I think there's a demo of it on my BBS immediately upon connection if you're using a high enough SyncTERM version. (An image will show up before the login menu appears.)

    The display function I'm using is like this, where 'fn' is a string, path to a sixel file:

    load('cterm_lib.js');

    function show_sixel(fn) {
    if (console.cterm_version >= 1189) {
    var image = new File(fn);
    if (image.exists) {
    if (image.open("rb", true)) {
    var readlen = console.output_buffer_level + console.output_buffer_space;
    readlen /= 2;
    console.clear();
    while (!image.eof) {
    var imagedata=image.read(readlen);
    while (console.output_buffer_space < imagedata.length) {
    mswait(1);
    }
    console.write(imagedata);
    }
    image.close();
    return true;
    }
    }
    }
    return false;
    }

    very nice! i see you color image from your bbs. I will try on mine!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to echicken on Tue Mar 8 09:13:19 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 02:35 pm

    There's no technical reason SyncTERM couldn't show a PNG directly, but I doubt if that'll ever happen (for a variety of reasons).

    There are a couple features now that I think are specific to SyncTerm that other terminals can't do. One of them is being able to change fonts, and I think this feature of showing images is also a feature specific to SyncTerm?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to echicken on Tue Mar 8 11:36:18 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 02:35 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 03:56:40

    would be great if we could use .png files in our bbses but it's probably not possible. that's too bad.

    Conversion on demand is probably the way to go, and doable with existing command line utilities (eg. img2sixel). I'd have it produce copies for each terminal size it encounters and reuse those files later. An at-code could invoke the converter/loader and then display the image, and the sysop wouldn't have to think beyond dropping the PNG somewhere on disk.


    yeah but i think that would create a lag that users wouldn't like.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ragnarok on Tue Mar 8 11:37:07 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: Ragnarok to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:26 am


    okay, thanks. that makes sense.
    i'll look for a conversion utility.

    On debian you can install libsixel-bin and get the sixel2png tool


    i dont think i want to use those limited formats though. i wish i could just have pngs display in the client.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT/VALHALLA to echicken on Tue Mar 8 12:53:21 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 02:35 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 03:56:40

    would be great if we could use .png files in our bbses but it's
    probably not possible. that's too bad.

    Conversion on demand is probably the way to go, and doable with existing command line utilities (eg. img2sixel). I'd have it produce copies for each terminal size it encounters and reuse those files later. An at-code could invoke the converter/loader and then display the image, and the sysop wouldn't have to think beyond dropping the PNG somewhere on disk.

    There's no technical reason SyncTERM couldn't show a PNG directly, but I doubt if that'll ever happen (for a variety of reasons).

    So to show a jpg or png, it has to be converted to sixel first. correct. I'd love to be able to do that with a menu like the Apple bbs refered to does. things sure have come a long way. I will be following this tread.

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue Mar 8 12:30:54 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 09:13 am

    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 02:35 pm

    There's no technical reason SyncTERM couldn't show a PNG directly, but I doubt if that'll ever happen (for a variety of reasons).

    There are a couple features now that I think are specific to SyncTerm that other terminals can't do. One of them is being able to change fonts, and I think this feature of showing images is also a feature specific to SyncTerm?


    yeah it is.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to Nightfox on Tue Mar 8 19:04:31 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 09:13:19

    There are a couple features now that I think are specific to SyncTerm that other terminals can't do. One of them is being able to change fonts, and I think this feature of showing images is also a feature specific to SyncTerm?

    There's probably little support for these image formats outside of SyncTERM, but they're not a Deuce invention. This is SyncTERM being a more fullsome terminal by supporting established terminal features.

    As for the fonts, I have no idea. Perhaps some historic terminal supported font-switching and we're using the same control sequence for that.

    I *think* Deuce is more interested in extending SyncTERM to support established terminal standards/functionality than in inventing new features. I could be wrong, but most changes in recent years have trended in that direction.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to MRO on Tue Mar 8 19:07:26 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:36:18

    yeah but i think that would create a lag that users wouldn't like.

    Right. Ideally this would be an image loader/converter and it would only have to do the conversion once, maybe once per terminal size. When invoked it checks to see if the image was already generated and just displays it if so.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Tue Mar 8 19:25:59 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Tue Mar 08 2022 03:53 am

    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Mon Mar 07 2022 08:37 pm

    it didnt turn out great. probably because of the white bg https://i.imgur.com/oBJJopW.png

    I think you need to start with a better image.



    better how?

    More detailed.

    i used a screenshot of an ansi file.

    Why? If you want something as low resolution as CP437 block characters, just use that.

    should i make it so the bg isnt white?

    No, the color doesn't matter so long as it's a single color.

    It's call Sixel, it displays in the same window.

    i think that would be a big game changer for the client.

    It's been there for several years now. Check dura-bbs.net:6359 if you want to see some cool stuff being done with both SyncTERM fonts and Sixel from an Apple ][.


    yeah that looks cool. when deuce first showed me syncterm working with images it had a separate window popup.

    I think that was something else, maybe the XuulTerm thing he was working on?

    does sixel take png files?

    You can convert png files to Sixel, yes.

    that's what i was talking about, not xbin files

    looks like this format requires a lot of image tweaking and has a lot of limitations. that's probably why it wasnt widely used.

    XBin images are compatible with SyncTERM 1.0. That's it's main feature. <shrug> --

    so why didn't my image convert correctly? i had it saved as monochrome and changed the resolution so it was divisable by 8.

    It looks like it did convert correctly, you just used a very low quality source image.

    what do i have to do to an image to get it to display correctly.

    Looks like it did to me.

    also you said :
    i know years ago deuce was working on displaying image files like jpgs but they were in a separate window. it would be nice if syncterm could display a png in the client the way it can display these xb files.

    It's call Sixel, it displays in the same window.

    so can syncterm display jpgs and other images? png would be better because of the colors.

    JPGs or PNGs can be converted to Sixel and it'll display them.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #32:
    Derek Smalls: [A jog?] We don't have time for that.
    Norco, CA WX: 57.5°F, 29.0% humidity, 6 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Tue Mar 8 19:27:48 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 09:13 am

    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 02:35 pm

    There's no technical reason SyncTERM couldn't show a PNG directly, but I doubt if that'll ever happen (for a variety of reasons).

    There are a couple features now that I think are specific to SyncTerm that other terminals can't do. One of them is being able to change fonts,

    Netrunner can change fonts too, just not to sysop-defined fonts.

    and I
    think this feature of showing images is also a feature specific to SyncTerm?

    Sixel is a standard supported by other terminals too, though those terminals are not BBS-centric.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Breaking Bad quote #21:
    You? No. The only shooting you do is into a Kleenex. - Hank Schrader
    Norco, CA WX: 57.5°F, 29.0% humidity, 6 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 00:46:24 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 07:25 pm


    so why didn't my image convert correctly? i had it saved as monochrome and changed the resolution so it was divisable by 8.

    It looks like it did convert correctly, you just used a very low quality source image.


    yeah but isnt that the very definition of what it accepts.

    so can syncterm display jpgs and other images? png would be better
    because of the colors.

    JPGs or PNGs can be converted to Sixel and it'll display them.

    yeah but you sacrifice colors and overall quality.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to echicken on Wed Mar 9 00:51:56 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 02:35 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Tue Mar 08 2022 03:56:40

    would be great if we could use .png files in our bbses but it's probably not possible. that's too bad.

    Conversion on demand is probably the way to go, and doable with existing command line utilities (eg. img2sixel). I'd have it produce copies for each terminal size it encounters and reuse those files later. An at-code could invoke the converter/loader and then display the image, and the sysop wouldn't have to think beyond dropping the PNG somewhere on disk.

    There's no technical reason SyncTERM couldn't show a PNG directly, but I doubt if that'll ever happen (for a variety of reasons).

    that's too bad because sixel is very limited.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ragnarok on Wed Mar 9 00:52:45 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: Ragnarok to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:26 am

    okay, thanks. that makes sense.
    i'll look for a conversion utility.

    On debian you can install libsixel-bin and get the sixel2png tool

    nah i think i'm done with sixel. i was hoping i could display full color images with syncterm finally.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Tue Mar 8 23:42:57 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:46 am

    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 07:25 pm


    so why didn't my image convert correctly? i had it saved as monochrome and changed the resolution so it was divisable by 8.

    It looks like it did convert correctly, you just used a very low quality source image.


    yeah but isnt that the very definition of what it accepts.

    It's all relative. XBin images can consist of thousands of pixels. You can't do the same with CP437 block characters in an 80x25 terminal window.

    so can syncterm display jpgs and other images? png would be better
    because of the colors.

    JPGs or PNGs can be converted to Sixel and it'll display them.

    yeah but you sacrifice colors and overall quality.

    No, Sixel is a pixel-for-pixel high color image transmission protocol.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #19:
    Oh then, maybe it's not green. Anyway this is what I sleep in sometimes.
    Norco, CA WX: 51.3°F, 37.0% humidity, 0 mph N wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Tue Mar 8 23:43:38 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:51 am

    that's too bad because sixel is very limited.

    In what way? Are you confusing Sixel with XBin images? They're not the same thing at all.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #16:
    Synchronet first supported FidoNet networking (with SBBSFIDO) in 1992
    Norco, CA WX: 51.3°F, 37.0% humidity, 0 mph N wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Tue Mar 8 23:44:10 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Ragnarok on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:52 am

    Re: Re: xbin
    By: Ragnarok to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:26 am

    okay, thanks. that makes sense.
    i'll look for a conversion utility.

    On debian you can install libsixel-bin and get the sixel2png tool

    nah i think i'm done with sixel. i was hoping i could display full color images with syncterm finally.

    You seem to be confusing Sixel and XBin images. Totally different things.
    --
    digital man (rob)

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #30:
    Big bottom, big bottom / Talk about mud flaps, my girl's got 'em!
    Norco, CA WX: 51.3°F, 37.0% humidity, 0 mph N wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 03:07:20 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:42 pm


    yeah but you sacrifice colors and overall quality.

    No, Sixel is a pixel-for-pixel high color image transmission protocol.

    oh i thought it was an old printer protocol it didn't support that many
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 03:08:44 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:43 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:51 am

    that's too bad because sixel is very limited.

    In what way? Are you confusing Sixel with XBin images? They're not the same thing at all.

    i thought they were comparable in quality.

    i really have not seen it used anywhere in my whole life.i thought it would have lower quality and less colors.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 03:09:52 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:44 pm

    nah i think i'm done with sixel. i was hoping i could display full color images with syncterm finally.

    You seem to be confusing Sixel and XBin images. Totally different things.

    no, i just thought they both had poor graphics.

    years ago i'd really like to use png files with my bbses instead of using something else.

    at this point there's no users so, doesn't matter.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT/VALHALLA to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 08:37:29 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:42 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:46 am

    JPGs or PNGs can be converted to Sixel and it'll display them.

    Is there a max size that is allowed. I used an online converter to convert a jpg to sixel, and it displayed fine on a sixel viewer, but when I used the sysop ;list function logged in with syncterm 1.1, all I got was garbage, lines and lines of it (code). The file size after conversion was 1.4 meg.

    I've been following this thread, and I like sixel over xbin, not for logon pics, or menu pics, just able to use them in an online viewer.

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
    Valhalla III! - (RemoteAccess) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:5023
    Valhalla IIII! - (Dungeons & Dragons BBS) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:26
    Valhalla Home Services Web! - http://bbs.valhallabbs.com
    A Gamers Paradise - Over 150 Registered Online Game Doors!
    Home Of Odin's Maze Game Server!

    --- Don't eat the yellow snow!
    ■ Synchronet ■ Valhalla Home Services ■ USA ■ http://valhalla.synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 9 09:56:09 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 08:37 am


    Is there a max size that is allowed. I used an online converter to convert a jpg to sixel, and it displayed fine on a sixel viewer, but when I used the sysop ;list function logged in with syncterm 1.1, all I got was garbage, lines and lines of it (code). The file size after conversion was 1.4 meg.

    I've been following this thread, and I like sixel over xbin, not for logon pics, or menu pics, just able to use them in an online viewer.


    i'd rather it just support png without converters.

    anyways, maybe what would help us out in the current age is to go in the direction that excaliber bbs was going. there it had graphics and sound.

    or maybe that was a harbinger that we should have just all gone to using the web and what we have now with fb and telegram and instagram.

    i wonder about bbsing. what draw do we have to people today? people that used to use bbses dont come back. people that come here for the retro dont stick around.

    i just have a feeling we are missing something. just copying something isnt going to do it.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 09:01:07 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Tue Mar 08 2022 07:27 pm

    Netrunner can change fonts too, just not to sysop-defined fonts.

    Sixel is a standard supported by other terminals too, though those terminals are not BBS-centric.

    Interesting.. I've mostly only used terminal emulation software for calling BBSes. I didn't know these were standard features.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 9 17:15:11 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 08:37:29

    Is there a max size that is allowed. I used an online converter to convert a jpg to sixel, and it displayed fine on a sixel viewer, but when I used the sysop ;list function logged in with syncterm 1.1, all I got was garbage, lines and lines of it (code). The file size after conversion was 1.4 meg.

    It might be about the size of the file. The code example I posted a while ago makes a special point of only loading so much at a time and waiting for space in the buffer. I don't remember if that was a real problem.

    I know that I had trouble with image dimensions, but I can't remember if it was a showstopper if the image was larger than the terminal etc. In any case, scaling the image would be an important step. The source PNG for the graphic I'm using is 640x384 pixels.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Wed Mar 9 09:45:05 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 03:09 am

    Re: Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:44 pm

    nah i think i'm done with sixel. i was hoping i could display full color images with syncterm finally.

    You seem to be confusing Sixel and XBin images. Totally different things.

    no, i just thought they both had poor graphics.

    years ago i'd really like to use png files with my bbses instead of using something else.

    ssh or rlogin to nix.synchro.net or telnet/rlogin/ssh to bbs.electronicchicken.com to see some Sixel demos (using SyncTER v1.1+). They're full color, high-res. Or just web-search for "Sixel" and you'll see tons of examples.

    at this point there's no users so, doesn't matter.

    Let's be honest, you don't really *want* users, right? :-)
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #80:
    85 SBBSecho registrations were sold (at $49) between 1994 and 1996
    Norco, CA WX: 57.7°F, 38.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 9 09:48:40 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 08:37 am

    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 11:42 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:46 am

    JPGs or PNGs can be converted to Sixel and it'll display them.

    Is there a max size that is allowed. I used an online converter to convert a jpg to sixel, and it displayed fine on a sixel viewer, but when I used the sysop ;list function logged in with syncterm 1.1, all I got was garbage, lines and lines of it (code). The file size after conversion was 1.4 meg.

    I've been following this thread, and I like sixel over xbin, not for logon pics, or menu pics, just able to use them in an online viewer.

    I haven't tried it, but I suspect the ;list command probably isn't suitable for viewing Sixel data (since it assumes you're viewing a *text* file and would perform functions like word/line wrapping).
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Sling Blade quote #16:
    Karl Childers (to Doyle, re: lawn mower blade): I aim to kill you with it. Mmm. Norco, CA WX: 57.7°F, 38.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 12:04:31 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Wed Mar 09 2022 09:45 am

    They're full color, high-res. Or just web-search for "Sixel" and you'll see tons of examples.

    at this point there's no users so, doesn't matter.

    Let's be honest, you don't really *want* users, right? :-)


    well i get some nice ones once in a while and they leave a msg and say hi.
    so i'd like more of that.

    I'd rather not have other sysops that visit as users. I don't think those are good users.

    I like to have someone who'd like to play some games (like i have a few good lord games) or download some files.

    looks like the last 5 new users i had this year were all sysops.

    so i tried nix.synchro.net and it seems down on rlogin and telnet and ssh

    i checked out echicken's bbs and it does have a nice colorful one right before the login. i dont know if there's more on his bbs to view, i looked around but
    didn't see any.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT/VALHALLA to MRO on Wed Mar 9 12:22:05 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 09 2022 09:56 am

    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 08:37 am

    Is there a max size that is allowed. I used an online converter to
    convert a jpg to sixel, and it displayed fine on a sixel viewer, but
    when I used the sysop ;list function logged in with syncterm 1.1, all
    I got was garbage, lines and lines of it (code). The file size after
    conversion was 1.4 meg.

    I've been following this thread, and I like sixel over xbin, not for
    logon
    pics, or menu pics, just able to use them in an online viewer.


    i'd rather it just support png without converters.

    So would I, but given the restraints, I'm happy with what we have if I could just figure out how to disply it to the users. My inital plan was to have a heading in the text file area to display the sixel pics of the house, some of my hobbies, and other things. I don't think it would draw fast enough for login stuff.

    anyways, maybe what would help us out in the current age is to go in the direction that excaliber bbs was going. there it had graphics and sound.

    Maybe Sync will go that direction, but it would also have to be implemented in the terminal client, like Sixel and xbin are now. On the local side of things, any decent sound would prob play hell with the network or memory from the server to the client.

    or maybe that was a harbinger that we should have just all gone to using the web and what we have now with fb and telegram and instagram.

    I think what we have is good, so I don't try to compare. I think the key is to try to offer more of what the public wants to get them back.

    i wonder about bbsing. what draw do we have to people today? people that used to use bbses dont come back. people that come here for the retro dont stick around.

    Let's face it, BBSing is a niche crowd. The user seeks us out because they remember it, or heard their dads or family members mention it. We do get some web traffic from our individual websites, but most younger people log off as soon as they realize it's text graphics.

    I'm happy with my BBS, and I advertise it, but for the most part, it's a labor of love for me. I got hooked over 30 years ago, and I plan on trying to keep it going till I'm in the ground. My other half can't stand it, so I know when I'm gone, it will be gone.

    i just have a feeling we are missing something. just copying something isnt going to do it.

    So do I, I agree with you. I know one thing that would help getting BBS's more traffic is that everyone needs to make their systems different. I see so many cookie cutter bbs's, that never change the graphics, layouts, or anything. They install it right out of the box, and never touch it. The general public gets board with that. There are a lot of nice systems out there, but unfortunatly there are more cookie cuter systems. I know I got off topic on this, but we have to peak peoples interest before we will get the users we all are looking for.

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
    Valhalla III! - (RemoteAccess) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:5023
    Valhalla IIII! - (Dungeons & Dragons BBS) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:26
    Valhalla Home Services Web! - http://bbs.valhallabbs.com
    A Gamers Paradise - Over 150 Registered Online Game Doors!
    Home Of Odin's Maze Game Server!

    --- FART(n): An audio test of one's waste-disposal system.
    ■ Synchronet ■ Valhalla Home Services ■ USA ■ http://valhalla.synchro.net
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to MRO on Wed Mar 9 18:50:53 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 09 2022 09:56:09

    anyways, maybe what would help us out in the current age is to go in the direction that excaliber bbs was going. there it had graphics and sound.

    At a certain point you're just reinventing the web browser. There was a time when these would've been awesome features for a BBS to have, but timing just didn't work out. Everyone bailed for the web because it was prettier, easier to use, and a wider world. And that was way back when, before apps and touchscreens and really fine-tuned UI design.

    By the time the BBS is retooled and reinvented sufficiently to appeal to modern users, and maybe serve communities in need of their own self-hosted hub, it'll look very different. It'd probably look like a mishmash of several modern apps, with a curious textmode option attached that few people ever use. There's probably a place for that, but I guarantee that tons of people here would refuse to call it a BBS at that point.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to MRO on Wed Mar 9 18:52:37 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:04:31

    i checked out echicken's bbs and it does have a nice colorful one right before the login. i dont know if there's more on his bbs to view, i looked around but didn't see any.

    That's the only one. It's just there as a demo. I never found any practical use for it on my BBS and didn't pursue it further.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to echicken on Wed Mar 9 13:19:12 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Wed Mar 09 2022 06:52 pm

    Re: Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:04:31

    i checked out echicken's bbs and it does have a nice colorful one right before the login. i dont know if there's more on his bbs to view, i looked around but didn't see any.

    That's the only one. It's just there as a demo. I never found any practical use for it on my BBS and didn't pursue it further.


    it looks decent, though. would you be able to have it has a header for a main menu?
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to Nightfox on Wed Mar 9 16:19:22 2022
    El 9/3/22 a las 14:01, Nightfox escribió:
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Tue Mar 08 2022 07:27 pm

    DM> Netrunner can change fonts too, just not to sysop-defined fonts.

    DM> Sixel is a standard supported by other terminals too, though those
    DM> terminals are not BBS-centric.

    Interesting.. I've mostly only used terminal emulation software for calling BBSes. I didn't know these were standard features.

    Nightfox


    I notice that vt340 terminal emulators can support sixel. I don't think
    that ols DOS terminal like, terminate or similar could support these emulations.

    For example, xterm support it.

    Saludos!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to echicken on Wed Mar 9 11:46:19 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Wed Mar 09 2022 06:50 pm

    anyways, maybe what would help us out in the current age is to go in
    the direction that excaliber bbs was going. there it had graphics
    and sound.

    At a certain point you're just reinventing the web browser. There was a time when these would've been awesome features for a BBS to have, but timing just didn't work out. Everyone bailed for the web because it was prettier, easier to use, and a wider world. And that was way back when, before apps and touchscreens and really fine-tuned UI design.

    I've thought about this too. Going down this route is basically re-inventing things that have already been done. And if we want better graphics and image display capabilities, RIP and RoboBoard were a couple of standards I had seen in the 90s for providing graphics capabilities for BBSes.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to MRO on Wed Mar 9 20:58:17 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Wed Mar 09 2022 13:19:12

    it looks decent, though. would you be able to have it has a header for a main menu?

    I recall problems with mixing graphics modes, like I couldn't show a sixel image and then superimpose text on it, but I don't remember the details. Maybe it's possible to write some text below/above/around the image; I'll try to remember to experiment soon. Failing that I guess you'd have to make your whole menu a graphic.

    Possibly Deuce would be able to add a little more flexibility, but I think we talked about this once and it sounded like it'd be tricky.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT/VALHALLA to echicken on Wed Mar 9 15:43:48 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 09 2022 05:15 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 08:37:29

    Is there a max size that is allowed. I used an online converter to
    convert a jpg to sixel, and it displayed fine on a sixel viewer, but
    when I used the sysop ;list function logged in with syncterm 1.1,
    all I got was garbage, lines and lines of it (code). The file size
    after conversion was 1.4 meg.

    It might be about the size of the file. The code example I posted a while ago makes a special point of only loading so much at a time and waiting for space in the buffer. I don't remember if that was a real problem.

    I know that I had trouble with image dimensions, but I can't remember if it was a showstopper if the image was larger than the terminal etc. In any case, scaling the image would be an important step. The source PNG for the graphic I'm using is 640x384 pixels.

    I was thinking the same think. I was going to try to scale the orig pixels down tomorrow, just ran out of time today.

    I'll let you know. Thanks

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
    Valhalla III! - (RemoteAccess) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:5023
    Valhalla IIII! - (Dungeons & Dragons BBS) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:26
    Valhalla Home Services Web! - http://bbs.valhallabbs.com
    A Gamers Paradise - Over 150 Registered Online Game Doors!
    Home Of Odin's Maze Game Server!

    --- CAT (n.), Furry keyboard cover.
    ■ Synchronet ■ Valhalla Home Services ■ USA ■ http://valhalla.synchro.net
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT/VALHALLA to Digital Man on Wed Mar 9 15:48:15 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Digital Man to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 09 2022 09:48 am

    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 08:37 am
    Is there a max size that is allowed. I used an online converter to
    convert a jpg to sixel, and it displayed fine on a sixel viewer, but
    when I used the sysop ;list function logged in with syncterm 1.1, all
    I got was garbage, lines and lines of it (code). The file size after
    conversion was 1.4 meg.

    I've been following this thread, and I like sixel over xbin, not for
    logon
    pics, or menu pics, just able to use them in an online viewer.

    I haven't tried it, but I suspect the ;list command probably isn't suitable for viewing Sixel data (since it assumes you're viewing a *text* file and would perform functions like word/line wrapping).

    That's a good point. Hopefully, if time permits tomorrow, I'm going to try some other things.

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
    Valhalla III! - (RemoteAccess) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:5023
    Valhalla IIII! - (Dungeons & Dragons BBS) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:26
    Valhalla Home Services Web! - http://bbs.valhallabbs.com
    A Gamers Paradise - Over 150 Registered Online Game Doors!
    Home Of Odin's Maze Game Server!

    --- CAT (n.), Furry keyboard cover.
    ■ Synchronet ■ Valhalla Home Services ■ USA ■ http://valhalla.synchro.net
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to Nightfox on Wed Mar 9 21:27:49 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Wed Mar 09 2022 11:46:19

    re-inventing things that have already been done. And if we want better graphics and image display capabilities, RIP and RoboBoard were a couple of standards I had seen in the 90s for providing graphics capabilities for BBSes.

    For "better" graphics you might as well just use the web. RIP is something to use out of nostalgia or curiosity. The main selling point for using a BBS from a terminal today is the simplistic, keyboard-driven, textmode UI.

    There's a lot of stuff we *could* do today that would've been super cool 25+ years ago, but now the entire landscape has changed. What would've made these features cool *then* is pretty irrelevant now.

    Not that I'm saying let's not try new things. It can be fun to work on this stuff and try different approaches, to see a BBS do some new and surprising thing. Who knows, the right experiment might open up some interesting possibilities.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Mar 9 16:44:15 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: Nightfox to echicken on Wed Mar 09 2022 11:46 am

    I've thought about this too. Going down this route is basically re-inventing things that have already been done. And if we want better graphics and image display capabilities, RIP and RoboBoard were a couple of standards I had seen in the 90s for providing graphics capabilities for BBSes.

    well it depends on the ideas. if you do shit that's already been done, that's what you are doing. if you have good ideas to do something different and useful that helps.

    basically nobody wants to use a bbs because there's better things out there.
    so we can intergrate instead of reinvent, or some up with something good.

    i intergrated telegram with my irc server and that's increased the enjoyability of it.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to echicken on Wed Mar 9 16:46:46 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to Nightfox on Wed Mar 09 2022 09:27 pm

    For "better" graphics you might as well just use the web. RIP is something to use out of nostalgia or curiosity. The main selling point for using a BBS from a terminal today is the simplistic, keyboard-driven, textmode UI.


    i disagree. the main selling point of a bbs is probably the content they provide. so that would probably be the doorgames [if you had user interaction] or the msg bases.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to MRO on Thu Mar 10 05:12:30 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to echicken on Wed Mar 09 2022 16:46:46

    something to use out of nostalgia or curiosity. The main selling point
    for using a BBS from a terminal today is the simplistic,
    keyboard-driven, textmode UI.

    i disagree. the main selling point of a bbs is probably the content they provide. so that would probably be the doorgames [if you had user interact

    Note that I said "The main selling point for using a BBS from a terminal".

    We're not going to improve the BBS in any meaningful way by mixing half-baked GUI notions into the textmode/terminal experience. That type of UI is already available elsewhere, even from our own systems via other protocols, and done better. It's a disservice to the terminal to pit it against better graphical environments, setting it up for failure. Better to play to its strengths.

    Nothing wrong with messing around with this stuff for the hell of it, though. It can be fun to work on, and die-hard BBSers might get a kick out of seeing a high-rez picture in their terminal, or being able to use their mouse or whatever.

    I'm not saying there isn't good content, or at least the possibility of it, on BBSs in general. Far from. Most of it, however, is not inextricable from the medium. People can put their content anywhere; a BBS is an option among many. Door games are a notable exception and are a definite selling point.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to echicken on Thu Mar 10 00:39:15 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Thu Mar 10 2022 05:12 am

    Note that I said "The main selling point for using a BBS from a terminal".

    We're not going to improve the BBS in any meaningful way by mixing half-baked GUI notions into the textmode/terminal experience. That type of UI is already available elsewhere, even from our own systems via other protocols, and done better. It's a disservice to the terminal to pit it

    would be nice to use pngs for our menus, though.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to echicken on Thu Mar 10 10:53:11 2022
    El 9/3/22 a las 20:50, echicken escribió:
    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to DesotoFireflite on Wed Mar 09 2022 09:56:09

    MR> anyways, maybe what would help us out in the current age is to go in the
    MR> direction that excaliber bbs was going. there it had graphics and sound.

    At a certain point you're just reinventing the web browser. There was a time when these would've been awesome features for a BBS to have, but timing just didn't work out. Everyone bailed for the web because it was prettier, easier to use, and a wider world. And that was way back when, before apps and touchscreens and really fine-tuned UI design.

    By the time the BBS is retooled and reinvented sufficiently to appeal to modern users, and maybe serve communities in need of their own self-hosted hub, it'll look very different. It'd probably look like a mishmash of several modern apps, with a curious textmode option attached that few people ever use. There's probably a place for that, but I guarantee that tons of people here would refuse to call it a BBS at that point.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    Ę Synchronet Ę electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

    Worldgroup from Galaticoom had something called Client/Server protocol
    It had its own client called Worldgroup Manager that ran native
    applications (win16) and communicated with the server.
    The good thing was that you could run several at the same time

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to echicken on Thu Mar 10 10:56:05 2022
    El 9/3/22 a las 20:52, echicken escribió:
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Mar 09 2022 12:04:31

    MR> i checked out echicken's bbs and it does have a nice colorful one right
    MR> before the login. i dont know if there's more on his bbs to view, i looked
    MR> around but didn't see any.

    That's the only one. It's just there as a demo. I never found any practical use for it on my BBS and didn't pursue it further.


    It would be nice to be able to put a transparent background to syncterm
    hahaha

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ragnarok on Thu Mar 10 09:25:15 2022
    Re: Re: xbin
    By: Ragnarok to echicken on Thu Mar 10 2022 10:56 am

    It would be nice to be able to put a transparent background to syncterm hahaha

    that would be trippy
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT/VALHALLA to echicken on Thu Mar 10 13:11:14 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to MRO on Tue Mar 08 2022 05:04 am

    Re: xbin
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Mar 07 2022 21:28:46

    The display function I'm using is like this, where 'fn' is a string, path to a sixel file:

    Ok, so far, I made a file with the ext of js, and put it in my mods directory. I tried calling the file ?file.js c:/sbbs/text.oip.six. with no luck. I see where you say fn is a string, so do I actually modify the file for line 3 and 5, and put in my path to the sixel file. I tried that, and just get errors. I think my first statement is what I should be doing, but something is off on the command line I'm thinking. My syncterm show the sixel on your bbs fine, so i've ruled out syncterm. What am I missing. I've made the file small 240x188 for this experiment. Thanks in advance.

    load('cterm_lib.js');

    function show_sixel(fn) {
    if (console.cterm_version >= 1189) {
    var image = new File(fn);
    if (image.exists) {
    if (image.open("rb", true)) {
    var readlen = console.output_buffer_level + console.output_buffer_space; readlen /= 2;
    console.clear();
    while (!image.eof) {
    var imagedata=image.read(readlen);
    while (console.output_buffer_space < imagedata.length) {
    mswait(1);
    }
    console.write(imagedata);
    }
    image.close();
    return true;
    }



    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
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    Home Of Odin's Maze Game Server!

    --- CAT (n.), Furry keyboard cover.
    ■ Synchronet ■ Valhalla Home Services ■ USA ■ http://valhalla.synchro.net
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to DesotoFireflite on Thu Mar 10 19:29:02 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to echicken on Thu Mar 10 2022 13:11:14

    Ok, so far, I made a file with the ext of js, and put it in my mods directory. I tried calling the file ?file.js c:/sbbs/text.oip.six. with no

    If you add this line to the end of the JS file, it should try to display the sixel file given on your command line:

    show_sixel(argv[0]);

    (Otherwise, the code that I shared won't do much of anything; it just defines a function but doesn't actually "call" it.)

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT to echicken on Thu Mar 10 15:26:57 2022
    From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

    To: echicken
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to DesotoFireflite on Thu Mar 10 2022 07:29 pm

    From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

    To: DesotoFireflite
    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to echicken on Thu Mar 10 2022 13:11:14
    If you add this line to the end of the JS file, it should try to display the sixel file given on your command line:

    show_sixel(argv[0]);

    Works like a charm, that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much for helping on this.

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
    Valhalla III! - (RemoteAccess) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:5023
    Valhalla IIII! - (Dungeons & Dragons BBS) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:26
    Valhalla Home Services Web! - http://bbs.valhallabbs.com
    A Gamers Paradise - Over 150 Registered Online Game Doors!
    Home Of Odin's Maze Game Server!

    --- CAT (n.), Furry keyboard cover.

    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
    Valhalla Home Services! - Over 100 Online Games! - telnet://valhalla.synchro.net
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From DesotoFireflite@VERT/VALHALLA to echicken on Sat Mar 12 17:29:24 2022
    Re: xbin
    By: echicken to DesotoFireflite on Thu Mar 10 2022 07:29 pm

    Re: xbin
    By: DesotoFireflite to echicken on Thu Mar 10 2022 13:11:14
    If you add this line to the end of the JS file, it should try to display the sixel file given on your command line:

    show_sixel(argv[0]);

    It worked great. I went as far as making another module to show off about 20 sixels to those that would like to check it out. It's up and running, located in the external area calle the "Annex" option 25 "Snap Shots". I'll upload the files later as a package as soon as I work on some docs. It's a great addition to the board. Thanks so much for your help.

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
    Valhalla III! - (RemoteAccess) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:5023
    Valhalla IIII! - (Dungeons & Dragons BBS) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:26
    Valhalla Home Services Web! - http://bbs.valhallabbs.com
    A Gamers Paradise - Over 150 Registered Online Game Doors!
    Home Of Odin's Maze Game Server!

    --- Old farts never die! They just smell that way...
    ■ Synchronet ■ Valhalla Home Services ■ USA ■ http://valhalla.synchro.net