• NVMe versus SATA in desktops?

    From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to All on Tue Jul 11 09:36:00 2023
    I have a 4th generation i7 desktop running Windows 10. It's got 16GB of ram and a SATA SSD. I'm debating about upgrading my desktop PC, I'm looking to upgrade to a newer (10th gen or higher CPU), more cores, and trying to buy some
    extended life for my PC.

    The one question I was hoping to get was some real world comparison of SATA versus NVMe in desktops. I'd like to get a system that has NVMe since it seems like everything's going that way and I'd hate it if I ended up being limited by SATA in a couple of years. Does anyone have experience running NVMe on your desktop, especially if you could compare real-world speeds with running SATA?
    I know the difference in design speeds, not sure how that maps to a desktop OS. ---
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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 11 19:33:00 2023
    On 11 Jul 2023, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

    The one question I was hoping to get was some real world comparison of SATA versus NVMe in desktops. I'd like to get a system that has NVMe
    since it seems like everything's going that way and I'd hate it if I
    ended up being limited by SATA in a couple of years. Does anyone have

    SATA SSDs might as well be spinning drives compared to NVMe. 100% the only reason you would buy SATA SSDs is because you've used (both) the NVMe slot(s) on your mobo.

    i bought an NVMe along with my first ryzen 7 in 2017 and that one is /still/ faster than the SSDs they sell today because of that giant SATA bottleneck.

    this is only going to get worse for SATA because as of now the future plan is a NVMe->GPU direct pipeline, and 10gbit networking is already 2x what a sata ssd can keep up with.. hell 2.5gbit might even be pushing it if your drive is pretty full.

    i sound a bit like a zealot but it really is awesome. and significantly cheaper than when i first got into it.

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 12 15:30:57 2023
    Re: NVMe versus SATA in desktops?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Tue Jul 11 2023 09:36:00

    I have a 4th generation i7 desktop running Windows 10. It's got 16GB of ram and a SATA SSD. I'm debating about upgrading my desktop PC, I'm looking to upgrade to a newer (10th gen or higher CPU), more cores, and trying to buy some extended life for my PC.

    You're going to have to replace your motherboard and ram as well... and even an RX 6600 is likely faster than the GPU from ~8 years ago (assuming it's that old as well).. so best to just plan on a replacement, unless you really like your case. Your PSU may be comming close to EOL as well.

    The one question I was hoping to get was some real world comparison of SATA versus NVMe in desktops. I'd like to get a system that has NVMe since it seems like everything's going that way and I'd hate it if I ended up being limited by SATA in a couple of years. Does anyone have experience running NVMe on your desktop, especially if you could compare real-world speeds with running SATA? I know the difference in design speeds, not sure how that maps to a desktop OS.

    Real world, you won't notice the difference from SATA too much. I mostly notice when building large projects or doing things like a message scan, where you're accessing the contents of many files in a relatively short turn around... For a very large web project, HDD to SATA SSD goes from minutes to around a minute. Going from SATA SSD to Gen 4 PCIE NVME is a couple seconds. So it depends on your usage, but for playing games, web, general use you aren't likely to notice.

    That said, the pricing is on par between the two, with NVME being much faster in some cases. Most current motherboards have at least 1 and as many as 3-4 NVME slots, so you might as well. Bonus, no cable clutter. Those last points (mb support, similar price, no cables) aare the main reasons I just say go nvme.

    Things to look for are DRAM cache over "SLC" cache... the former is dedicated dram, the latter is a portion of memory that is using SLC mode for faster access... The drives of the former being a bit better quality generally speaking, but again, unlikely to notice a difference in day to day usage.

    I'm partial to Samsung, WD Black, Solidigm and Sabrent (Rocket Line).


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    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From Bf2k+@VERT/TACOPRON to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 12 21:05:36 2023
    Re: NVMe versus SATA in desktops?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Tue Jul 11 2023 09:36 am

    I have a 4th generation i7 desktop running Windows 10. It's got 16GB of ram and a SATA SSD. I'm debating about upgrading my desktop PC, I'm looking to upgrade to a newer (10th gen or higher CPU), more cores, and trying to buy some
    extended life for my PC.

    The one question I was hoping to get was some real world comparison of SATA versus NVMe in desktops. I'd like to get a system that has NVMe since it seems like everything's going that way and I'd hate it if I ended up being NVMe on your desktop, especially if you could compare real-world speeds with running SATA?
    I know the difference in design speeds, not sure how that maps to a desktop OS.

    I have 4 NVMe 2tb drives in my desktop along with a single 2tb SATA drive. While I don't have any numbers to post, the SATA is by far the slowest drive on the system and it is noticeable. The desktop is a core i9 12th gen running Windows 10 Pro.
    /s

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to fusion on Wed Jul 12 07:20:00 2023
    fusion wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    i sound a bit like a zealot but it really is awesome. and significantly cheaper than when i first got into it.

    That's exactly what I was hoping to hear - thanks! I'm looking to get as
    much life out of my systems as I can, and sometimes that means spending
    more up front to delay the inevitable obsolescence. I'm leaning towards
    NVMe thinking that in 5 years SATA will indeed feel like spinning
    drives, as you mentioned.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 07:20:00 2023
    Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I have a 4th generation i7 desktop running Windows 10. It's got 16GB of ram and a SATA SSD. I'm debating about upgrading my desktop PC, I'm looking to upgrade to a newer (10th gen or higher CPU), more cores, and trying to buy some extended life for my PC.

    You're going to have to replace your motherboard and ram as well... and even an RX 6600 is likely faster than the GPU from ~8 years ago
    (assuming it's that old as well).. so best to just plan on a
    replacement, unless you really like your case. Your PSU may be comming close to EOL as well.


    Upgrading = replacing the whole kit. Sorry I wasn't clearer. I'm
    looking for a new system. BTW, I have an Nvidia GTX 1030 in my current
    system. I can get 50 fps playing the only modern game I play.

    Real world, you won't notice the difference from SATA too much. I
    mostly notice when building large projects or doing things like a
    message scan, where you're accessing the contents of many files in a relatively short turn around... For a very large web project, HDD to
    SATA SSD goes from minutes to around a minute. Going from SATA SSD to
    Gen 4 PCIE NVME is a couple seconds. So it depends on your usage, but
    for playing games, web, general use you aren't likely to notice.

    I have 2 Proxmox servers - my old one is a Thinkpad with an i7, the new
    one is a Dell Optiplex i5 with a NVMe. I definitely see a difference
    running VMs, wasn't sure about desktop results. I'm mostly doing web,
    office, photoshop and games here, some transcoding of media.


    That said, the pricing is on par between the two, with NVME being much faster in some cases. Most current motherboards have at least 1 and as many as 3-4 NVME slots, so you might as well. Bonus, no cable clutter.
    Those last points (mb support, similar price, no cables) aare the main reasons I just say go nvme.

    After growing up with MFM and floppy drives, I can appreciate a lack of
    cables. :)

    Things to look for are DRAM cache over "SLC" cache... the former is dedicated dram, the latter is a portion of memory that is using SLC
    mode for faster access... The drives of the former being a bit better quality generally speaking, but again, unlikely to notice a difference
    in day to day usage.

    I'm partial to Samsung, WD Black, Solidigm and Sabrent (Rocket Line).

    Thanks for sharing! This is very helpful.




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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Bf2k+ on Thu Jul 13 07:22:00 2023
    Bf2k+ wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I have 4 NVMe 2tb drives in my desktop along with a single 2tb SATA
    drive. While I don't have any numbers to post, the SATA is by far the slowest drive on the system and it is noticeable. The desktop is a
    core i9 12th gen running Windows 10 Pro. /s

    My goal here is to future-proof a new system, your insight confirms that
    even though I'd be happy with SATA SSDs now, I'd end up regretting it in a couple of years when NVMe gets cheap and SATA SSDs feel like spinning
    rust does now.



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